Curse

Brian the Gladiator · May 23, 2008, 01:13 PM // 13:13

[skill]guardian[/skill] = 1 of 3 best active prots in the game rivaled only by [skill]spirit bond[/skill] and [skill]protective spirit[/skill]. You should probably use them...

PvP LoD bar.
[light of deliverance][infuse health][Patient Spirit][Dismiss Condition][protective spirit][Cure hex][glyph of lesser energy][aegis]
Skills that serve little to no purpose in PvE: [infuse health]
Best replacement skill: [guardian] or...??? I guess if the other monk is already bringing it, use [shield of absorption]

I D E L E T E D I · May 23, 2008, 02:18 PM // 14:18

How come your "PvP" LoD bar is missing Holy Veil?

You should mention that you replaced that with Cure Hex^^

And back when LoD was meta, Patient Spirit was not in the game. Dwaynas Kiss was in that place.

But I agree Guardian is ftw

ump · May 23, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

I'm back to using Light of Deliverance for PvE. Of course, that is with hero/hench. I use Reversal of Fortune, Dwayna's Kiss, Light of Deliverance, Protective Spirit, Pain Inverter, Technobabble, Shield of Absorption, Aegis. I use a N/Rt restoration healer and protection henchmen. If I were grouping with others, I would probably use Dismiss Condition and Cure Hex instead of Pain Inverter and Technobabble.

Grammar · May 25, 2008, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Aegis is better than Guardian in general PvE, and by general PvE I mean H/H.

More specifically, Aegis chaining is pretty dominate in PvE. You don't even need a monk hero to do it; all you need is a X/Mo caster hero with 9 points in prot and a 20% enchantment mod to run the second copy of Aegis.

Of course Guardian is better than Aegis in PvP, but this thread is exclusively about PvE, hence the LoD discussion (which is pretty much exclusively a PvE skill at this point, because the PvP version is still bad).

Age · May 25, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

Aegis is better than Guardian in general PvE, and by general PvE I mean H/H.

More specifically, Aegis chaining is pretty dominate in PvE. You don't even need a monk hero to do it; all you need is a X/Mo caster hero with 9 points in prot and a 20% enchantment mod to run the second copy of Aegis.

Of course Guardian is better than Aegis in PvP, but this thread is exclusively about PvE, hence the LoD discussion (which is pretty much exclusively a PvE skill at this point, because the PvP version is still bad).

Yeah you can always make your Ele hero a Glyph of Renewal +Aegis chainer I don't chain it.

shru · May 25, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

if you're looking to bring back party wide healing, monk isn't the way to go.

[ether renewal]+[glyph of swiftness]+2 other enchants=perma free [heal party] spam. HP has 1 sec longer cast, but superior healing and superior recharge to LoD. Plus you're free to spam [heal other]/[jamei's gaze] as a pseudo replacement to [word of healing]

The PvE elmo healer lives!

anyway, Word just far out classes LoD on a primary monk since the original buffs to single target spells and nerfs to party wide heals.(Anet wanted to reducess the mainstay of passive party wide heal spam and focus more on single target, and they ended up doing just that)
I'm not sure just reducing the recharge rate for PvE is enough after everyone has found the new WoH.

isamu kurosawa · May 26, 2008, 12:15 AM // 00:15

I now run with one WoH hybrid and one LoD hybrid now. (dropping for woh for an RC in condition heavy area's)

usually along the lines of

[build=OwYT04XCzZmUX3Ib6pPyoeEQAA]

[build=OwYT04XCzRjsRurb6pPyQLGQAA]

Lots of variations and skill changes are possible of course. " LoD is still useful but with the damage some foes in eotn can do (such as dinosaurs) a WoH is still useful.

Taisayacho · May 26, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

[borat voice]I like![/borat voice]

Bront · May 26, 2008, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

Well, LoD is back, in PvE anyway.

Personally, I think they did a pretty decent job of reverting LoD. It's certainly very strong again, but I wouldn't say it's overpowered (no more so than WoH anyway).
Comparing the new LoD to the original LoD:
- Heal amount is a little less (~10hp)
- Recharge is 1 second longer (6 instead of 5)
- 80% condition is gone

New PvE LoD build:

[light of deliverance][Dwayna's Kiss][Patient Spirit][Dismiss Condition][Cure hex][Shield of absorption][prot spirit][aegis]

LoD replaces WoH, and Patient/Kiss (whichever one you didn't already have on your bar) replaces RoF. You still have two good spot heals like before, and you add a relatively spammable party heal. Might consider keeping RoF over Patient in HM though, as it's far better there.

Thoughts?

Needs E-management. [[divine spirit] Might be useful given the spammable nature of LoD and the other heals, but it has to replace something (Prot Spirit in NM, Shield of Absorption in HM maybe?)

Only direct heal that you can apply to yourself is Patient Spirit, which is a huge potential problem (If LoD is in recharge, PS takes 2 seconds to apply the heal). This can be dangerous for the monk, particularly without RoF.

This might work quite well when paired up with a standard WoH monk. One has the spike heal, one has the party pressure heal.

horseradish · May 26, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

[Divine Spirit] can barely be labeled as energy management. It's only useful for fueling [Deny Hexes].

The only energy management that bar needs is player skill and an emergency set.

Bront · May 26, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

[Divine Spirit] can barely be labeled as energy management. It's only useful for fueling [Deny Hexes].

The only energy management that bar needs is player skill and an emergency set.

I've had some good success using it. The recharge could be a little faster, but I've honestly rarely ran into that being an issue. It's more useful than [[gole] on builds that spam 5-10 energy spells, it runs off of DF, and is effected by a +20% enchanting item.

horseradish · May 26, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

It's more useful than [[gole] on builds that spam 5-10 energy spells, it runs off of DF, and is effected by a +20% enchanting item.

Well, the majority of monk builds have 2-3 ten energy spells, the rest are 5 energy. In skill bars like those, [GoLE] is the popular choice.

Using Glyph allows you to actively save your energy (moreso than Divine Spirit anyways). Cast glyph then PS or Aegis, and you've saved 20 energy. Divine Spirit has the potential to save more energy, but spamming skills is not smart, and it's unavailable for 3/4ths of a minute, a long time even in PvE.

The enchanting mod will, at the most, give you 3 extra seconds. Not much help at all.

But each to his own. If DS works for you, i'm not gonna stop you from using it.

I like GoLE better, but either skill is not necessary in PvE.

isamu kurosawa · May 26, 2008, 10:20 AM // 10:20

I only find [[divine spirit|DS] useful if used with [[glyph of renewal|GoR], whcih causes you to loose your elite anyway.

Careful use of skills should be enough e-management for 5e skills while [[glyph of lesser energy|glyph] handles your 10e skills.

ender6 · May 26, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

The only energy management that bar needs is player skill and an emergency set.

QFT

Always nice to see a prompt, not too mention correct, answer delivered on these boards.

MasterSasori · May 26, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Still not a fan of [light of deliverance] so long as [word of healing] is out. It's better though.

Age · May 26, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Needs E-management. [[divine spirit] Might be useful given the spammable nature of LoD and the other heals, but it has to replace something (Prot Spirit in NM, Shield of Absorption in HM maybe?)

Only direct heal that you can apply to yourself is Patient Spirit, which is a huge potential problem (If LoD is in recharge, PS takes 2 seconds to apply the heal). This can be dangerous for the monk, particularly without RoF.

This might work quite well when paired up with a standard WoH monk. One has the spike heal, one has the party pressure heal.

There is really no need of e-management if Aegis is used sparingly.I still would use a res especially when pugging.Bront not eveyone plays as a /E.Foci swapping is the best form of it e-man..

Tyla · May 26, 2008, 09:28 PM // 21:28

E-management helps out in areas where it can be mean to energy.

But either way it's FAR better than any res. You could even put another prot in that spot aswell...

Age · May 26, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

When pugging I take a res as I don't want to be yelled at again like one bad pug group I monked for if H/H I smite.I let the hero and hench monk do the heal/protecting.

Tyla · May 26, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Why are PuG's a problem? Just because they're bad doesn't mean you have to retreat on it and accept what they say like Izzy did in the update that got reverted.

Age · May 26, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Why because pugs are pugs and I sometimes like monking for them as they are a challenge in them selves but you can never be sure if a wipe will happen.I have build that is similar to ismu kurosawa with rebirth in it.

When Monks don't res and are being yelled at and called names it is some what humilitating(sp).